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Loxie & Zoot traduit en français ! (translated into Fren
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noodtoonist



Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:15 am    Post subject: Loxie & Zoot traduit en français ! (translated into Fren Reply with quote

Alright, I've been sitting on this for a while now... a long, long while - but here you have it - a French version of Loxie & Zoot!

It has been generously undertaken and provided by forum regular Cor (with proofing help from his wife). He lives in Canada and speaks both English and French. As such the French used in his translations are based around a Quebec-style grammar and usage in order to better reflect that the story itself is set in Australia where the English spoken there has its own unique colloquial qualities compared to traditional (or US) English. Translation isn't an exact science of course, you can't just substitute one word for another and it is all open to personal interpretation but I do believe Cor has given his all to capture the essence of what is being spoken by the characters. Not only has he translated The Koala Bares but also every other story I've published to date - that's right, 500+ pages of work. Astounding. I'll be serialising those pages daily... Sunday through Saturday... should take almost two years to work through them all but we'll get there.

Cor has given his own time to this project and also added the translated text (except in the case of signs, etc) over my original artwork - I had wanted to redo the lettering artwork myself to make it clearer to read but have had absolutely no time. Hopefully there will be the opportunity to still do so in the future but I did not want my tardiness to deny a potential French audience the opportunity to read these stories (and I do mean tardiness, I've had these pages for months now! Sorry, Cor!!). I have asked readers to let me know if they see any errors and to suggest corrections and I will consider merging these with any final version.

I would like to thank Cor and his lovely wife for the amazing effort and dedication they have shown in undertaking this project - as the artist, I am deeply humbled and grateful. You are champions!

I guess for a lot of folk who don't read French this probably is a bit of a yawner but for all of those who do read French it should hopefully be very exciting. Visits to the Bare Pit from France account for just under 2% of all visits, I'm not sure what the percentage from other mostly French speaking countries might be. At any rate even if you don't read French but you do love the noodtoons you should at least be excited that they now have a greater reach around the world and larger potential audience... and that's a fantastic thing!

Ever since I started producing Loxie & Zoot (and then The Bare Pit) I have been receiving offers from readers in non-English speaking countries keen to translate the comics into their own language. French, Spanish, Czech, Russian and a few others I can't remember now. And every single time I have resisted the offers. Crazy, right? Not really - there are three basic reasons I believed it would be a bad idea to accept a 'fan-translation':

1. I only speak and read English - I have no way of knowing how accurate any translation is. Sticking a translation into a Google translator can help me to a degree but it doesn't really help with the nuance and specific qualities of each language - especially around colloquialisms, word play/puns and humor. A glaring example is the pun involved in the words bare/bear - to make word play around that in English is simple but not in any other language... and what does one do to replace something like that it in a translation without losing the intended humor? Also I work hard to try and make the flow of words, the dialogue and banter between the characters sound natural and 'in character', to me the comic is as much about the words as the pictures, how can I know if a translation has captured what I want to convey to the readers?

2. The lettering is as much a part of the art as the drawing - I invest a fair bit of effort into trying to make the lettering both pleasant and invisible on the page, nothing screws up a comic more than crappy and/or hard to read lettering and poorly placed word balloons. So who does the lettering in a translated comic? Preferably not me but I have always wanted any translation to be intrinsic to the art, not just new words dropped in over the top. So I have always viewed that as extra work for me - a lot of extra work.

3. If you're going to something like this do it professionally, actually employ someone who does this kind of thing to do the translation that way one can have a higher degree of trust in the end product. Besides it is a huge, huge, huge undertaking - I have never felt comfortable with the idea of people doing tasks for me for free even though I certainly don't have the $$ to pay for such services. A lot of people have found after only a few pages that it is a big job (especially if they are doing the lettering too) and I'd also hate to get started only for the whole thing to come to screaming halt half-way through.

I've never said don't go and do a translation but I have never been very supportive of the concept. I mean I'm very grateful that it has been offered but I just see it as a project I'm not very keen to embrace for those reasons... and most people have never proceeded beyond the initial proposal. Until now that is! When Cor offered (last year I think it was) I pretty much batted back all my concerns, but he went ahead and did it anyway! Laughing We had called in a third person to check and verify the translations and although the request was accepted that person has unfortunately not been able to continue due to a number of other pressing priorities (my immense gratitude for your assistance though, Stephane!).

It's fair to say that the lettering is a bit rough, however Cor has done an excellent job all things considered. I really had wanted to reletter each page but after spending several hours on just one page my brain just went into denial and shut down. In the end I decided that something was better than nothing - I felt very guilty about sitting on it all, considering how much work had gone into it - so for the time being at least you get the 'raw version', fitting for a nudist comic, huh?

The site itself is very basic, I've just started it up as another comic within The Bare Pit site, which means some of the links are in English not French... which can't be helped. I don't even know yet if I've got the right or appropriate text for the First/Previous/Next/Current navigation buttons! As it settles in over the next few weeks I'll start adding extra material to the webpages. Given that I've spoken over the last few months about moving L&Z and TBP into a single website I'm not sure yet exactly how the French version will fit into the scheme of things, but it will.

Also, yes, this does open the floodgates. To anyone else who wants to contribute fan-translations - Spanish, Arabic, Mongolian, Latin, Klingon, whatever - I am much more open to the idea than I was a few years ago. If you think you can work through the issues and concerns I've raised above by all means let me know! Merci! Very Happy
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reinder
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had some minor involvement in the project as Cor sent me the translations for Incognito and the anniversary party comic that I drew. I can read French reasonably well and found them believable - if a little Quebeçois at times in their choice of idioms.

I also sent Cor my font to work with and would have sent him higher-res originals to work with for Incognito if he wanted them. Image quality is important as well and re-editing web images is a procedure that rarely ends well. I'm surprised actually that it has worked out as well for Loxie and Zoot as it has!

What also surprises me is that you're running the comics here on WCN... wouldnt' this have been a good opportunity to experiment with running comics on a more advanced hosting platform?
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noodtoonist



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinder wrote:
I can read French reasonably well and found them believable - if a little Quebeçois at times in their choice of idioms.
That was a similar comment from Stephane who had a look over them. Quebeçois or not it's still all greek... uh, French to me! Wink

Quote:
Image quality is important as well and re-editing web images is a procedure that rarely ends well.
There's been a bit of a drop in picture quality for sure but as you note not too bad - I'll post the relettered page that I produced about two months ago this week some time. It certainly is how I'd like to see the pages look but the whole process was so time intensive to pursue it further would have meant no Bare Pit for a long time. Anyway, I'll see how my workload goes - probably with a bit of practice it'd take less and less time to rework each page.

Quote:
What also surprises me is that you're running the comics here on WCN... wouldnt' this have been a good opportunity to experiment with running comics on a more advanced hosting platform?
Yeah, I know... I decided that it would be easier to kick the translation off here. A new site is still probably a bit of time away and I was feeling guilty for sitting on Cor's work for so long so I figured I'd just get it out of the way because in many ways it's 'easier' (in my mind at least) to deal with than setting up a whole new platform...
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Won-Tolla



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, another webcomic in Fren. Wink
Going to change the Next button?
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noodtoonist



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah the stupid Subject field allowed me to enter the whole word (French) but then on publication cut it off! *shakes fist at Subject Field"...

You mean "next" isn't French for "next"??????? (merde)
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Won-Tolla



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I know of. On the other (bare) hand, "textile" seems to be the same, so the running on Tex Tyler's name would still work.
Then again I suppose "a textiler" would be "un textileur" or something.
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HowdieDoodieHead



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: Loxie & Zoot traduit en français ! (translated into Reply with quote

noodtoonist wrote:

Also, yes, this does open the floodgates. To anyone else who wants to contribute fan-translations - Spanish, Arabic, Mongolian, Latin, Klingon, whatever - I am much more open to the idea than I was a few years ago. If you think you can work through the issues and concerns I've raised above by all means let me know! Merci! Very Happy


Would you want that in the Klingon Alphabet , or in phonetic Roman Alphabet?
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noodtoonist



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely in Klingon alphabet! Don't know how serious you are about that but if you are - go for it (even if it's just one of the short stories, or the Koala Bares 5 page dream prelude).

But my experience with this French translation has taught me a few things - firstly I'll need to have access to a fully fledged font suite for the language in question (for example, the font I normally use to letter my comics doesn't have the accents and other things that float above the letters which caused problems for me when I tried to letter the original art in French) -that way I can (at one stage) do the final art; secondly I would need it done by the translator on the art (no matter how roughly) and typed into a word document so I can easily add the text to the art (for example, when I tried to letter the original art in French I had to retype the text from the translation myself - not being a French speaker/reader/writer myself meant I had to check, recheck and recheck it again to make sure I hadn't made an error); finally there needs to be at least one other independent person prepared to verify the translation. I might have to do a submission guide!

I'm sure I could track down a Klingon font somewhere, so if you can deal with the other issues - go for it!

Of course the dialogue would need to be Klingoned up a bit - TEX: bortaS bir jablu'Dl'reH QaQqu' nay'!!!! ("Revenge is a dish best served cold!!!!!") Laughing
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Bo Lindbergh



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bit about the NEXT button reminds me of the attempted French version of Cool Cat Studio way back when it was still on Keenspot. Whoever did the translation of the Autokeen system asked Gisèle Lagacé for the names of the days of the week, but he expected them in the order Sunday–Saturday and she provided them in the order Monday–Sunday. Oops...
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noodtoonist



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so "next"...

adjective

1. prochain
2. suivant
3. à côté
4. proche
5. voisin

adverb

1. ensuite
2. après

i'm more familiar with the adverb usages, especially as in "après vous" but is "next" in this instance an adjective or an adverb?? I'm going with adjective and "prochain" seems the best option here.

language!!!! if only we all spoke Esperanto!
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reinder
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also word order to consider. In French, most adjectives (but not all - there's a short list of exceptions) go after the noun, so it should be "Bandes dessinées naturistes".
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noodtoonist



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for that - i went and made the change and have now realised I've forgotten the accents. d'oh! will fix it up later today...
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cor



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:23 am    Post subject: The Bare Pit (en francais... blast - no accents) Reply with quote

Hello,

I feel like the guy who's late for his own wedding but I"ve just discovered the Stephen put up the translarions... Yippeeee!!!

I'm personnally very happy about this because it will allow a WHOLE bunch of new fans appreciate his comics, which is why I started this whole thing in rhe first place, seven months ago.

Thank you, Stephen, for the confidence you have placed in me.
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reinder
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it just lovely when those numbers on the calendar widget just line up like that?
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noodtoonist



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: The Bare Pit (en francais... blast - no accents) Reply with quote

cor wrote:
Thank you, Stephen, for the confidence you have placed in me.

And to which I can only say thank YOU! I'll try and add a bit more to the site over the weekend to polish it up a bit.

As I mentioned above this is the one page I managed to reletter myself before my brain melted...!



Cor pointed out to me there were some punctuation issues (I think that's what pushed me over the edge! Laughing ) - but anyway, this is what I'd like to produce one day. One day when I have lots of free time... sigh...

reinder wrote:
Isn't it just lovely when those numbers on the calendar widget just line up like that?

yeah that was totally weird how that happened, but it helped me to make sure I had the right page for the right day. for anyone wondering what we're talking about, there's a small coincidence in that the page number currently echoes the date (ie page 2.01 was updated on the 21st, page 2.02 on the 22nd and so forth)
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